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air rifle question
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| SJUGOC |
Posted on 09-05-2010 02:57
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Marksmen
Posts: 20
Joined: 16.12.09
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Hi guys I have two parts to my question
First, i shoot with an anschutz 380 but it appears that it has slowed down in spead, it rips more that punches the paper. Still shoots fairly arccurate, but I noticed I have to stay real still to hit wear I want it to. I have been advised that I would need to replace the seals. The rifle was purchased in 1983. Via the interent I have learned that they no longer make replacement parts, and I was given the name of the official Anschutz gunssmith in the usa. Spoke to him today great guy. He said it would cost about 300 to repair but the problem is he does not have the parts to do it, and was not sure if he could get them. Certainly not in time for the empire state game tryouts in a few weeks.
The boss (my wife) has given me the go ahead to purchase a new Used air rifle, with a budget of course.
My first guestion, is anyone selling one? Where can I find one? web sites? (checked out gunbroker, ebang, gunsamerica with no luck.
Second question....I have checked out target talk and saw a Steyr LG100 Match AR, CA, .177 for sale for $1400. That appears to be the only one listed. Figures since every other time I check the site they have a few listed. Is that a decent rifle? and price? Also from the picture it looks like the distance from the rear site to the front site seems to be shorter than normal, is that normal for the new air rifles or is it missiong something? I know I would need to purchase a hand pump or tank to fill the thing, how easy is either one, any recomendations? cost for them? do you get the tank at a scuba place? Is their anything else I need to know about? How many shots do you normally get out of a cylinder? |
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| Pat Mccoy |
Posted on 09-05-2010 17:18
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Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: 15.12.09
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The $1400 is a fair price for the Steyr, but as you've said it will require either a had pump ($200) or tank and filling accessories($200 plus fills). Great gun if you are shooting 3P air, or standing only. Dive shops can fill these, or your local FD MAY fill it for you.
If you don't plan to shoot 3P air, you should scroll down on TT to find one of Jim E's FWB 600/601s. Everything you need for offhand shooting for $850-$900. Trigger and accuracy are great.
The Steyr cylinder is good for around 200 shots when full.
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| justadude |
Posted on 10-05-2010 11:36
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Sharpshooter
Posts: 54
Joined: 15.12.09
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SJUGOC, so you have one of the last great "springers". Today it always the debate, fix the old one or get something newer. First, a little philosophy, the LG380 is pushing 30 years old. Depending on your intent, goals and aspirations it may be time to take the plunge and upgrade to the 21st century. This also hinges on budget and spousal approval.
On the otherhand, for local activities a LG380 in good shape will still outshoot most shooters.
Last year, it took me six months to find parts for my 380, not that I had to fix it. Mostly the effort was so I can say that it is in good working order.
Now, the particulars, the LG380, has two main springs and a metal piston ring. These are the three parts that usually need service on some extended interval. The white sealing cone on the front of the cylinder and other moving parts of the piston do not usually wear out. This does not mean they cannot be injured by debris (read pellet shavings) but not usually an issue.
From your description the three parts you will likely need will be:
380-26 - piston ring
380-151 - outer mainspring
380-153 - inner mainspring
I was able to source my parts from Canada a place called http://www.target...ducts.com/ and a gentleman named Peter Krause <peter.gunguy@gmail.com>.
If this is all that is wrong and you are comfortable tearing your gun apart you can likley change this stuff out at home, if you aren't comfortable perhaps your gunsmith would work on it if you get him/her the parts.
Now the bad news, I am not in NY so I have not been paying attention to when the Empire State Games are to be held, I will say that Peter places an order and gets a shipement from Anschutz once every several weeks so this is not a speedy process.
Presently, when I get a chance to shoot air rifle I use an early FWB Model 601. Great rifle but I was never too jazzed about the rear sight. The rear sight was easily replaced as there was the standard 11mm dovetail. As McCoy mentioned, if all you want to do is shoot offhand it is hard to go wrong. (Recall that the FWB Model 600 was the air rifle that dethroned the LG380.) The Model 600 exists as 600, 601, 602 and 603 with changes being mostly internal.
I have also heard good things about the Steyr but never put my paws on long enough to shoot one. Clearly, any of the pre compressed air guns are going to give you an advantage on the line in terms of reduced effort but as you note there is some overhead past the rifle in getting going on that route.
Good Luck
'Dude
Edited by justadude on 10-05-2010 11:37 |
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| SJUGOC |
Posted on 11-05-2010 06:56
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Marksmen
Posts: 20
Joined: 16.12.09
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thanks for all the info (Pat & Dude) the empire tryouts are memorial day weekend, so there is just about no way my old 380 will get fixed in time.
My other thought was my son and daughter have both started shooting (12 & 14 years of age). So my guess is they will eventualy need an air rifle. So I think I will get a new used one.
I got a reply from about the Steyr and turns out the photo was missing the front stabelizer, so I was right but its there so I am good to go. The wife gave the okay so, I think I will move on it before she changes her mind, or something else breaks in the house lol.
I will follow up at some point on the leads you gave me as far as the parts for repair.
My only last descision to make is to purchase an airpump or scuba tank. Another local shooter just told me yesterday that the local scuba place refused to sell him a tank (for shooting). So I am not sure how that will work. Plus its a half our trip there to fill it up. Unless I hear anything bad about it I may therefor go with the pump. Anyone with any advise on that?? |
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| justadude |
Posted on 11-05-2010 09:46
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Sharpshooter
Posts: 54
Joined: 15.12.09
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SJUGOC
I keep telling myself I need to make the jump from my FWB601 to something from the 21st century but seeing as how I go through about one tin of pellets a year I am having a hard time justifying the expense. Congrats on your decision. I did a little more looking, yeah, with the Empire State Games starting the end of May there is no way to even get the parts for your 380 in time to do any good. I think we are about at the end supply chain here in the good ole' USA.
While I have not made the jump I have studied the problem some. The hand pumps are fine remember that time is your friend and heat and humidity are your enemy. When you are filling your cylinder there is no law that says you have to pump continiously until it is filled, the opposite is better. Pump for a while, walk away for a few minutes to let the pump and cylinder cool. Return, pump some more, let it cool etc... until full. If you pump continiously you will have a hot cylinder at pressure but less air in the cylinder.
While I have never studied it by experiment I have studied the theory, there is also the issue of humidity. You are living on the east coast, you have humid days. While this is a simplification it is important to realize that when you compress air you can almost start wringing the water out of it. Some of the hand pumps have add on dehumidfiers/dessicators, you may want to consider the extra expense, anything you can do to reduce the chance of water condensing inside the workings of the gun is worth it in my book. The other thing to consider is that if you are filling on a 60F morning at 100% humidity the air contains less water than 90F air at 50% humidity. Short story, filling when conditions are cool may be advantageous.
So there is my two cents on the topic.
Good Luck
'Dude |
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| SJUGOC |
Posted on 12-05-2010 00:31
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Marksmen
Posts: 20
Joined: 16.12.09
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Your theory makes a lot of sence to me and I went with the air pump, I ordered the rifle today. It should arrive by Monday giving me about a week and a half to get used to it. Thanks for the advice. For the most part its not very humid up here, especially in my house, plus they sold me some sort of device that goes on the pump to help with the moisture. I feel like its the week before christmas.  |
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| russbroach |
Posted on 12-05-2010 20:32
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Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: 23.12.09
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I did my seals on my fwb 600 and luckily my old man is a gunsmith who had the proper tools and was with me to help. It is not that easy to do, but can be done. Hopefully I'll see your new one in july!!! I'll know this sunday. |
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| SJUGOC |
Posted on 13-05-2010 01:08
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Marksmen
Posts: 20
Joined: 16.12.09
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you will do fine, I have no doubt you will make the team. Looks like my new rifle will not arrive until Tuesday since they will not ship it until Thursday, Good luck. |
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| SJUGOC |
Posted on 20-05-2010 01:16
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Marksmen
Posts: 20
Joined: 16.12.09
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new air rifle arrived today, took a little while to put the thing together, especially the air pump, directions where not the best. My first two attemps to fill the cylinder failed, air leaked out as I disconected it. A call to Pilkingtons solved that mystry turns out the Styer has a little trick to the removal. Third time was a charm, rifle shoots great. At least now I know if its a bad shot, its my fault. Just have to get used to the new rilfe, but very happy with the purchase. |
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| justadude |
Posted on 20-05-2010 06:06
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Sharpshooter
Posts: 54
Joined: 15.12.09
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I was flipping through here earlier this week wondering how you were doing with the new "toy". Glad it is working out for you. .... and hey, you have like a whole week to get used to it before Empire State.
Cheers,
'Dude |
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| SJUGOC |
Posted on 21-05-2010 00:46
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Marksmen
Posts: 20
Joined: 16.12.09
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Got a chance to shoot it again today, with better results. That will be it until next week. The pump gives you a bit of a work out. |
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| justadude |
Posted on 22-05-2010 10:23
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Sharpshooter
Posts: 54
Joined: 15.12.09
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With regard to the pump giving you a workout: Pumping efficiencies being the same, you are expending the same amount of effort during say 3 60 shot courses with your LG380 as you are pumping up that cylinder for what is reported to be about 200 shots. The energy is pretty much equal, just with the old Anschutz springer you spread it out over a longer period. Still, that is going to wear on you some as the tourney goes along. |
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| SJUGOC |
Posted on 24-05-2010 00:07
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Marksmen
Posts: 20
Joined: 16.12.09
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I know I have always heard how much energy it takes to crank the old lg380. But to be honest with you, its never been a real issue with me. Not sure if its just my rifle but I never felt it was that difficult to crank it. Even my 12 year old son does not have a problem with it. That being said, the new rifle is a pleasure, and you can even keep it in your shoulder to reload if you want to. I think thats more of a bonus. |
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| justadude |
Posted on 24-05-2010 11:18
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Sharpshooter
Posts: 54
Joined: 15.12.09
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I am talking about energy from a purely engineering point of view, not so much with respect to which rifle was harder to crank open or closed.
Consider it this way: The typical precision air rifle has a muzzle velocity in the 500 ft/sec or so. So from rifle to rifle the muzzle energy is going to be about the same. Clearly there are going to be cocking effort differences due to the way different rifles cock (springers FWB 300 and Ans LG380 vs pneumatic Walther LGR and FWB 600) and also mechanical advantage of the cocking system. Personally I always found the FWB 300 about the easiest to cock (lowest effort on the lever) on the other end the the Walter LGR was about the hardest. But in the end, you have stored pretty much the same amount of energy into some kind of mechanism to propel the pellet when the time comes.
Now the difference comes is the time taken to do this, for a 60 shot match going by ISSF time limits you have 1h45m to fire 60 shots. Lets say you fire 15 sighters so in 105m you put enough energy into an older cock it every shot air rifle to propel 75 pellets down the line. While most shooters have no trouble doing this they will often say, yeah my are was a little bit tired at the end.
To compare apples to apples, someone mentioned the Steyr that you just acquired goes for about 200 shots between cylinder fills. So lets say we are going to shoot and older air rifle for 200 shots at a slow competition pace. If it takes me 105 minutes to fire 75 shots that is 1.4 minutes per shot. Now I do that for 200 shots it would take me 280 minutes or 4h40m. So with the older store the energy as you go model I would stroke the cocking lever 200 times in 4h40m to shoot 200 pellets. If I did this without a break I am sure my arm, (along with other parts) would be rather tired, if not even a little sore. Now with the Steyr you compress all the air to propel those 200 pellets when you pump up the cylinder. Lets say it take 20 minutes to pump up the cylinder that would be expending the energy 14 times faster that the rate that energy has to be put into the older cock as you go air rifles. You are going to notice that difference.
It is a pay me now or pay me later problem. While I don't own one (yet) I do like the pre charged airguns for some of the exact reasons mentioned, much more like shooting smallbore, leave the rifle in your shoulder, less moving the gun around and better able to conserve energy up on the line. You can't tell me that not having to expend all the energy in manipulating and cocking the old airguns is going to help with the final aggregate.
Oh and by the way, good luck this weekend.
'Dude |
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| SJUGOC |
Posted on 28-05-2010 00:21
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Marksmen
Posts: 20
Joined: 16.12.09
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agreed, and for what its worth, my scores have gone up about 5 pts per ten shots, since I started shooting the rifle. Part of that is due to the problems I had with the other rifle, but I am still shooting about 3pts higher than last year. Its a lot less movement going on in the reloading proceedure. |
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| SJUGOC |
Posted on 01-06-2010 15:47
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Marksmen
Posts: 20
Joined: 16.12.09
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by the way I made the air team, by one point, my last two targets, a 95&96. I am sure the rifle made a difference |
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| justadude |
Posted on 01-06-2010 20:34
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Sharpshooter
Posts: 54
Joined: 15.12.09
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Congratulations,
Nicely Done!
'Dude |
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